[Amber Samdahl] 12:01:25 All right. Well, we'll go ahead and get started. [Amber Samdahl] 12:01:27 Hi everybody, my name is Amber Samdahl, I'm with PBS Wisconsin. Welcome to our Public Media Innovators webinar for November. [Amber Samdahl] 12:01:35 If you haven't joined us previously, Public Media Innovators is a NETA peer learning community. [Amber Samdahl] 12:01:41 Um, so on behalf of my fellow PMI team members, Chad Davis and Dave Huppert. [Amber Samdahl] 12:01:46 Thank you for being here today, and thanks to NETA for helping host these sessions. [Amber Samdahl] 12:01:51 Um, and before we dive in today, I want to take a moment to announce next month's webinar. So on December 11th, we're going to host a discussion around SEO. [Amber Samdahl] 12:02:02 and AI, um, I'm sure this is a growing hot topic, and we're going to have some members of the PBS marketing team join us to talk about. [Amber Samdahl] 12:02:10 What we should be thinking about adapting when it comes to discoverability and search engine optimization. [Amber Samdahl] 12:02:16 with the introduction of AI, so I'll put links in the chat. [Amber Samdahl] 12:02:20 For anyone interested in joining. Um, and now, uh, really excited to jump in with the topic today, excited to have a really, really special guest this month talking about an incredibly unique project. [Amber Samdahl] 12:02:33 Of course, we're talking about Powwow Bound. Here we all have our shirts on today to celebrate. Powwow Bound: A Menominee Homecoming is an interactive story game that was developed through a very unique partnership between Nebraska Public Media. [Amber Samdahl] 12:02:47 PBS Wisconsin, Vision Maker Media, and members of the Menominee Indian Tribe of Wisconsin, and full disclosure. [Amber Samdahl] 12:02:55 Chad and I were executive producers on this game, but really, we have the real talent, the real brains of the project here to talk about it, um, and take us all behind the scenes of the collaboration. So… There will be a short presentation, some panel Q&A, and then really want to open it up to the audience to ask questions, so feel free to put questions in the chat. [Amber Samdahl] 12:03:17 Um, and we will be recording this session, and it'll be posted on our website within approximately the next week or so. [Amber Samdahl] 12:03:24 So with that, I'd love to turn it over to our guests, and starting with Angelina. [Amber Samdahl] 12:03:30 Welcome. [Angelina Shi] 12:03:33 Hi everyone, thank you for, uh, being here. on our session on powwow-bound co-creating through culture and play. My name is Angelina Shi. I'm an interactive media producer with PBS Wisconsin. [Angelina Shi] 12:03:44 And I help co-produce this game along with. Uh, Jacob? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:03:48 Yeah, Posoh, my name's Jacob Schwitzer, I'm the other co-producer on Powwow Bound. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:03:53 I'm a game producer and software developer over at Nebraska Public Media. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:03:57 And then I'll hand it over to our two advisors joining us. First up, Justin. [Justin Gauthier] 12:04:03 Posoh, everybody! I'm Justin Jud Gauthier. Eagle's my middle name, as you can see on the slide. But, um, yeah, I'm a writer, actor, director, producer… sandwich eater… Pizza lover… guy, and I help… I helped write the game along with, uh, Angelina and Jacob and our advisor… advisory team. [Justin Gauthier] 12:04:27 Great to be here. Nani? [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:04:31 Posoh. [Menominee language] I'm Naneque LaTender. And I work from time to time as a Menominee language advisor for Powwow Bound, for other things. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:04:42 And I'm also a artist. Glad to be here too. [Angelina Shi] 12:04:49 Um, but yeah, for those of you who are unfamiliar with this game, Powwow Bound was. [Angelina Shi] 12:04:55 Co-created between, uh, co-produced by Nebraska Public Media and PPS Wisconsin, with additional funding support from Vision Maker Media. [Angelina Shi] 12:05:06 I'll pass on to Jacob to talk a little bit more about the goals of the game. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:10 Yeah, so the main goal for the game was to create an authentic representation of Indigenous peoples within video games. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:17 Often, you'll still see stereotypical depictions of Indigenous folks, or see entirely falsified, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:25 depictions as well, because the makers of the games don't consult with the tribe. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:29 So, in making this game, we wanted to make sure that it was made in service and in collaboration with the community that was being depicted. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:36 So we actually went and engaged with, uh, members of the Menominee Nation. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:42 And brought them on to the game, uh, to have key roles with the project. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:46 Um, our goal for the game was to allow players to gain an authentic understanding of Menominee culture and traditions, enjoy gameplay. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:05:54 But that's through actual objectives or exploration, and form deep connections with our characters through the story that we have depicted. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:06:02 Ultimately, uh, that goal of experiencing the culture and traditions of the Menominee tribe. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:06:08 Uh, through a story set at the annual contest powwow is what became Powwow Bound. We created a story around that, crafted all our characters to help sell that story. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:06:17 And, uh, made a game that replicated our powwow grounds. So now we're gonna show our trailer, and uh… give you a sense of what the game is like. [Video VO] PBS Wisconsin and Nebraska Public Media present. Powwow Bound, a Menominee homecoming. A narrative-driven, web-based adventure game. Step into the life of DJ. As she embarks on a journey to reconnect with her Menominee heritage. Experience the Menominee Nation Contest powwow through DJ's eyes. feel the energy of the powwow. learn about dancing and test your rhythm. Practice your photography in a captivating scavenger hunt. Explore rich 3D environments and meet dynamic characters. while celebrating the culture of the Menominee Nation. Powwow Bound: A Menominee Homecoming. Everyone is going home. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:07:28 Yeah, so if that voice sounds familiar, uh, that is our very own Naneque LaTender narrating the trailer, um, and we're grateful that she was able to come on and do that. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:07:38 in addition with her language advisor. role. Um, but yeah, uh, in working with the community and creating a game that, uh, depicted the culture and the traditions authentically. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:07:49 We needed to bring on a lot of community members to act as advisors on this project. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:07:55 Even though I'm Menominee, and the co-producer on the project. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:00 I can't speak for my entire tribe, so it was very important that we brought on other members to make sure that depiction was. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:07 uh, holistic and as, uh. Uniform as possible. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:11 So we brought on folks that ranged from the arts, whether that's beadwork, woodland floral art, or the traditional drum. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:18 actually having that music within the game. That was very important. We also brought in two dance advisors, uh, to help, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:26 Create, uh, the characters and. Inform the dance moves that are utilized within those styles. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:33 Uh, we brought on Naneque as our Menominee language advisor, and she worked, uh, in addition to Jud. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:40 Uh, as our narrative, uh, component. To imbue the language with the, uh, imbue the language into the story. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:48 and craft a story that, uh, is entirely representative of what it means to be a nominee. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:08:54 In addition to all that, we also had a character concept artist who was a Menominee that was brought on as well to create the characters that were. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:09:00 Uh, depicted in our story. Um, but yeah, I'm gonna throw it, uh, back over to Angelina to talk about the team makeup. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:08 Yeah, so, um, this was created across two different stations, Nebraska Public Media, PBS Wisconsin. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:16 We had folks working on it from both… on both sides. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:21 Uh, so looking at the structures, Nebraska Public Media did a lot of the. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:26 did a lot of this 3D art, um, the previous Wisconsin also pitched in for some additional support, um. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:31 Nebraska also handled all of the programming, handled the, uh, final audio design, as well as, um, provide some more additional. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:40 input to narrative, while on PBS Wisconsin side, we provided, uh, art direction. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:45 and some UI UX support. Of course, there was a lot of coordination that had to happen between the two teams. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:51 Which was where Jacob and I came in, um, sort of being able to coordinate. [Angelina Shi] 12:09:57 Communication was very important. We had. weekly meetings, not just… not just across the teams, but also for individual areas. [Angelina Shi] 12:10:07 So we had a programmers meet, we had an art meeting, we had a UI meetings, we had a narrative meeting, and so on, just to make sure that everyone was on the same page. [Angelina Shi] 12:10:17 Speaking of, uh, the same page. We also had to coordinate what tools we were using. Not all tools are compatible with each other. [Angelina Shi] 12:10:25 Um, so we had to make sure that we were using things that everyone could use, um, as well as, like. [Angelina Shi] 12:10:32 coordinating how we were passing information along to one another. [Angelina Shi] 12:10:36 This is something that should happen early on. Now, a passive actor Jacob talked about playtesting. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:10:42 Yeah, so again, in working with the community and making sure that, uh, they have a say in the project, we actually. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:10:50 Uh, did two playtesting sessions with, uh, Indigenous peoples. Uh, the first playtesting session that we did was down in Appleton, Wisconsin, uh, at Lawrence University. We worked with their native alliance there. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:11:02 To, uh, run a playtesting session with, uh, that group there and get feedback from them. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:11:08 Uh, in addition to that, we also hosted a 3-day playtesting session on the Menominee Reservation at the College of Menominee Nations Library. Uh, there we had a lot of, uh, Menominee folks come in, play the game for 30 minutes to an hour, and provide us feedback about what needed to be adjusted, what was working, what wasn't working, and just get a general sense of what the reaction would be. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:11:30 And upon, uh, doing all that, we were able to comfortably release it at the annual contest powwow. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:11:37 in August. Um, so yeah, there you see, uh… the team from both sides, uh, hosted a booth at our annual contest pow. It was very amazing. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:11:47 being able to show off the game in the space that it actually exists in, and we got a lot of good feedback from the community. We had a lot of young folks come up and play the game, and they were very excited about it. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:11:58 every so often, they would look at a character and say, oh, that looks like me, or that looks like my mom, or recognize some spaces in the virtual battlegrounds, like, oh, my family sits there. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:12:08 Um, so yeah, in seeing that, uh, we knew very well that, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:12:13 We had authentically captured that. Um, I do want to throw it to Angelina and, uh, communicate what it felt like from PBS Wisconsin's perspective as well, being the home station for the Menominee tribe. [Angelina Shi] 12:12:25 Yeah, it was a really great experience for us to be there, um, present when this was launched. [Angelina Shi] 12:12:30 It was, uh, really heartening to see the positive reactions. [Angelina Shi] 12:12:34 And just how welcoming the community was. think, but instead of hearing me talk about it, why don't we listen to. [Angelina Shi] 12:12:42 Um, some folks who actually did get the chance to play the game. [Angelina Shi] 12:12:46 of a powwow. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:02 So this game was inspired by, uh… the love that I have for my culture, Monomi tribe. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:08 and wanting to provide a source of media that represented them authentically. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:14 in a modern depiction. Often in video games, you don't see authentic depictions of indigenous folks. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:20 So, our intent was to create something that showed a better path forward for creating Indigenous media, while also lifting up the voices of the Monomi tribe. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:30 It was pretty emotional, honestly. I didn't grow up seeing a lot of people that looked like my family on TV or movies, or, you know, definitely not in video games or anything like that. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:44 Honestly, it's something that I never thought that I would. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:47 ever experienced, truthfully, I, um… This is just something that we experience as a culture together, so to see us in a video game, our powwow, and our, like. [Angelina Shi] 12:13:57 reservation being represented in such a great way. in a positive way, I love it. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:03 my kids and my little young cousins and, you know, all the. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:07 are gonna be able to play a game where, you know, there's people that look like you, people that look like your family, you know, people that sound like you and talk like you. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:19 What I love is that I'm seeing just being here, as kids are saying, hey, that looks like my auntie, or that. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:25 I know that, I know that person. I've been there. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:29 Uh, like, a 10 out of 10. You get to walk around the power and do these quests. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:34 It's truly just makes my heart happy. That's why I had to bring these guys to come see y'all. I was just so amazed that we have a video game of our land with our… With the bowl. It's a big thing, you know, it makes it… [Angelina Shi] 12:14:46 kind of makes you feel… you know, seen and represented. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:50 I had so much fun. [Angelina Shi] 12:14:59 Yeah, so I think that gave a really good look at some of the reactions from the Powow launch event. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:05 Um, so looking back at the course of the project, there are definitely some important lessons that we learned. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:11 some of these I discussed, um… like, aligning tools and methodologies across teams, but also aligning your teams early around the same goal and vision for whatever project you're working on. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:23 Um, a lot of this couldn't happen, couldn't have happened without spending time investing in these long-term community relationships. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:31 This was… this is stuff from before I worked at PBS Wisconsin. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:35 Um, so this really was sort of the end product of years of work from many, many people. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:40 Um, making sure playtest early and often, as we saw from the community playtest. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:45 making sure playtest with the actual community, um, as well as, like, advisor collaboration. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:51 Um, we couldn't have done it without these folks. [Angelina Shi] 12:15:53 So, make sure to start early, plan extra time, and pay them. It's really important work that they're doing. [Angelina Shi] 12:16:02 So now let us move on to the panel discussion. If you want to play the game, it is up at pbswisconsin.org slash powwow. [Amber Samdahl] 12:16:16 Great, thank you so much. Um, I can… kick off with, uh, some… questions for you all, um, but anyone attending, please feel free to put questions in the chat as well. [Amber Samdahl] 12:16:27 Um, but just to kind of start, uh, I have kind of a two-part question. [Amber Samdahl] 12:16:32 Can you share a bit more about how the advisory group was built. [Amber Samdahl] 12:16:36 And, um, how that kind of took place, and then also, you know. [Amber Samdahl] 12:16:41 Justin and Nanakwe, you know, what did it mean to be invited into this project? What was that process like? [Amber Samdahl] 12:16:47 For you as well. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:16:49 Yeah, so I can start, uh, with how this advisory group was built. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:16:54 Um, it really came down to, who do we know? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:16:58 Uh, around the reservation, um… We're not the biggest community in the world, but we're very tight-knit. Um, so when we started asking around, uh, for, like, oh, who would be a really good, like, beadwork advisor, or who would be a really good women's fancy shawl advisor. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:17:14 It came from, uh, connections, uh. That, uh, existed, uh, either through familial or friends or, uh, just. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:17:24 you know, someone that you met one time, and it's like, oh, hey, they might know something. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:17:28 Uh, so, as soon as we started building the advisors, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:17:32 We worked with the advisors as well to start growing that out and branching that out. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:17:37 So, it was really, uh, almost a grassroots approach. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:17:41 to developing that. [Amber Samdahl] 12:17:47 And how did that, um… How did… I guess my question to Justin Nanakwe, how, you know, had you worked together before? Have you worked on previous projects like this? How did the project kind of unfold for… for you? [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:03 I'll go first, Nani, if you don't mind. Um, I acted as a chaperone and, um, sort of mentor. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:13 to both Nani and Jacob on some, um… Summer programs, um, in the past years, um, mid-2010s. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:22 And it was just amazing to… Um, get to know them at the time, and just sort of see, like, that whole cohort. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:31 was full of, um, Menominee… enrolled Menominee and Descendant Menominee. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:36 kids who are going through their high school journey and. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:42 thinking about higher education or what they want to do. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:44 And it was just amazing to… To be amidst that and. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:49 And just hear the conversations that were happening, and make connections with people like Jacob said, a lot of it was. [Justin Gauthier] 12:18:57 It was really below grassroots, it was like grass seed level, how this all started, you know, um. [Justin Gauthier] 12:19:03 So, uh, yeah, and the collaboration… really networked out from those kind of connections. [Justin Gauthier] 12:19:12 What do you think, Nani? What was your experience? [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:19:17 Yeah, I totally agree. Um, you know, Jacob and Nick and I had gone through that internship together when we were younger, and had. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:19:27 Um, you know, developed our friendship and kept that through the years, and. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:19:33 Nick and Jacob are, you know, um, so talented, and they're working on lots of really cool projects whenever they put out the call. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:19:42 Um, we make time to be a part of the projects that they're asking us to participate in, and then hearing that Jud was, um, writing the script. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:19:53 made me even more excited to hear that they were bringing on people that I know would contribute really cool perspectives to the project. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:20:03 And so, um, it really wasn't a question when they asked me to be a part of it. I was. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:20:10 Um, you know, down to do what they asked, and. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:20:14 I was excited that they were going to have a Menominee language, um, advisor, and… Uh, that I would be able to… to do that for the project, so… Yeah. [Amber Samdahl] 12:20:30 And maybe you all can talk a little bit about how… how did the narrative come about? How did that story… You know, how did you come up with the idea, and how did the story get written, and how was language incorporated in that? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:20:45 Uh, well, the original concept was. to, uh, make sure that it was… A modern depiction and, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:20:53 a moment that we still see, like, a lot of our cultural elements, uh, you know, highlighted are through our annual powwows, um, even, uh, with this annual contest pow. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:21:03 Um, so that was kind of the starting point, but, uh, working with Jud, uh, he really brought a lot of his experience. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:21:10 Uh, to that, and his family's experience to, uh… start imbuing that within the story. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:21:16 So I'll let him speak on that point. [Justin Gauthier] 12:21:18 Yeah, thanks, um… Yeah, the whole movement in… Across media towards… telling Indigenous stories. [Justin Gauthier] 12:21:30 Um… has been sort of… simmering for, you know, the last decade or two, and it's. [Justin Gauthier] 12:21:36 I feel like it's gained a lot of momentum, um, in the last, like. [Justin Gauthier] 12:21:41 6-7 years, um… even up to today, like, I just saw Sean Chairman, the sous chef was on Daily Show last night talking about his cookbook, Turtle Island. [Justin Gauthier] 12:21:53 So we're, like, Indigenous people are really sort of stepping up into the limelight, where they. [Justin Gauthier] 12:21:59 You know, we always should have been… had a spot there. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:03 Um, so… that idea of us writing a… narrative for video game together, I thought. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:10 Why don't we use this opportunity to talk about. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:15 things within our, uh, communities that. are hard to get through in other forms of media. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:21 So, really early on in our meeting, I think we were at, like, Glass Nickel pizza or something, we were talking about, um. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:28 How the fact that, like, like, I'm an enrolled tribal member. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:33 Jacob is a descendant tribal member, and that's… there's just some sort of. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:37 Not a wedge, I would say, but there's a delineation of, like. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:42 colonial thought as to what a Native person is in a community when we sort of adopt those. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:50 those roles of, like, oh, I am enrolled because. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:52 because I have this percentage of blood in my. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:55 Family tree, and you are not enrolled, you are considered a descendant. [Justin Gauthier] 12:22:59 It's a very, like… It's a touchy subject for a lot of people to talk about them, blood quantum within tribal communities. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:07 So I thought this would be an amazing opportunity to introduce. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:12 you know, a retinue of characters, a family. That is experiencing this right now, like, in this generation. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:22 Um, and that being said. it's not really the front and center thing. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:27 Um, that's in the narrative of the game, it just sort of runs through, like, a little ribbon that we wanted to have in the background. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:36 Um, so yeah, it was… Right from those initial meetings, I was like, oh man, this is an opportunity. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:43 To tell a story that I've been thinking about just because of, like, like Jacob said, my life experiences, like, I have. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:50 I have cousins who I grew up with that were like my siblings, who come from urban centers. [Justin Gauthier] 12:23:56 And they will come up to the reservation, and there was just the feeling of, like. [Justin Gauthier] 12:24:02 Othering or different, you know, they were different from us. [Justin Gauthier] 12:24:05 from certain people within the community and from without. [Justin Gauthier] 12:24:08 So, it's a way to talk about that, it's a way to address it, it's a way for us as Menominee people to. [Justin Gauthier] 12:24:15 To see that reflected and give. reflection to it, think about it. [Justin Gauthier] 12:24:20 Yeah, so that was a… that was a big… it was a big piston in the engine of the story that we wrote, for me, and throughout the process of writing. [Justin Gauthier] 12:24:30 Um, I was just sort of kept that, like, a program in the background running when we were writing. [Amber Samdahl] 12:24:42 And how did you approach, um, incorporating language into the game, and… [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:24:48 Yeah, um, so I'm what's considered a second language learner, so I didn't grow up, um, learning the Menominee language in my household. That would be considered a fluent language, um, speaker. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:25:01 But, um, I've been practicing learning and speaking the Menominee language for close to 10 years now, and so, um… Knowing that Jud was writing the script made it, um, really a nice lift on me to be able to read it and know where I could incorporate language, or almost like. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:25:25 sub out some things that are really commonly used. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:25:30 Or some phrases that, um. Uh, we want people to know and hear in the game because they're used really often, even in English. Um, so reading the script and kind of translating some pieces was a part of my job, um… [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:25:49 But also, I, um. helped with whoever else was going to be speaking language within the game by recording the language and how it's properly pronounced. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:26:00 Because there might be some people who aren't able to pronounce it just by reading, um, what we've written, and so it's really important for us to have the audio available for people. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:26:13 who will be, um, speaking it, incorporating it into the game. And then also, um, making sure that the spelling is correct for, um, when it shows up on the game is really important, um… Because of the way that it's spelled now, um, if you are a language learner, you see the spelling, and you're pronouncing it based on the spelling, and so spelling is really important. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:26:40 Um, so that was another part of my role. I also had, um, a voice acting role for the main character, DJ, and the experience was really fun and awesome. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:26:51 Um, the way that Jacob set up the recording in the studio was really helpful for me by including, um, like, the emotions or the tone that they wanted to convey. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:27:06 with the, um, phrases and the words and everything that I was tasked to speak for the character. And so, it really helped me be able to do the voice recording to my best ability, uh, having him provide, like, the feedback in the booth as well. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:27:22 And he also was nice enough to give me some examples of how they wanted it spoken, and so then I could. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:27:28 kind of recast it and have it recorded in that way. So, all in all, I think it was a really wonderful experience as someone who is usually tasked with, um… language advisory or translation, in a way, because they, um, provided a space for me to be able to. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:27:49 um, use my skill set and incorporate it into a really respectful and awesome way into the game, so I really appreciate how they… they went about. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:27:59 Um, you know, hiring people for the advisory process. [Amber Samdahl] 12:28:06 I… my, um… you mentioned, um… the different ways that the language is included. I know there's a glossary in the game where people can go and consult, um. [Amber Samdahl] 12:28:16 I'm wondering if the group of you could talk a little bit about how you're thinking about how the use… how this game is going to be used, um, how it's used in classrooms, um, and beyond. Kind of, what's your hope for. [Amber Samdahl] 12:28:28 Um, how people will approach playing this game. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:28:33 Yeah, well, the hope is, you know, that anybody of any background. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:28:38 We'll get an understanding of. You know, what it means to be Indigenous in modern times, even though this is exclusively Menominee and set in a woodland tribe, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:28:49 It helps show that, you know, we're still here. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:28:52 We don't live in teethpees, we live in houses. We engage with each other, just like anybody else would, but. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:29:00 There's different cultures and different traditions that. uh, exist, uh… That, uh, you know, are good to show a window and a mirror to other folks' lives. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:29:11 Um, for Menominee folks, I hope that it allows them to see themselves in a game, uh, especially since, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:29:17 it's so rare to see Indigenous people represented in that space. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:29:21 And, uh, from a language component, uh. I'm really hopeful that, uh, you know, just by having the glossary, the text of the story. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:29:29 utilizing language and hearing the voice acting. Uh, that's being done. It can help create an interest in learning more about that. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:29:39 Um… yeah, no, uh, we are lucky enough to have a language institute on our reservation that is actively teaching, uh, that language. Justin has a, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:29:50 some of the merch there, um, and uh, Nani and her family, uh, collaborate with that quite often. Uh, we were just talking about that before this panel, uh, that her, uh, partner is, uh, picking up more work, uh, teaching language there. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:30:05 Um, so it's very wonderful to see the growth that's occurring on the Menominee Reservation, because language revitalization is very important in these times, as so many, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:30:16 tribes are continuing to lose their language. We're lucky enough to be growing our language users. [Amber Samdahl] 12:30:26 Any other thoughts on… on that? Or, um… How are we using this, uh… in classrooms around the state, too. [Amber Samdahl] 12:30:34 Any other thoughts? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:30:38 Uh, well, I'll just mention that in the state of Wisconsin, there is a law called Act 31 that requires the instruction of Indigenous histories in the classroom. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:30:46 My mother is a first grade teacher, and that was one of the. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:30:51 Uh, starting points for even making this game, uh, just to create something that could be used in classrooms. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:30:56 even though the game isn't educational by nature, um, we were able to create an educator's guide around it. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:01 Uh, to help prime other lessons on that front. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:05 Um, but the hope is that, uh, people can utilize this in classrooms, either here or beyond Wisconsin. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:12 And, uh, just start, uh, showing, you know. What it's like for Indigenous folks in a modern day. [Angelina Shi] 12:31:21 Yeah, um, I believe Jacob, and also Amber has tagged along on one of these trips. [Angelina Shi] 12:31:26 have been visiting classrooms to show students the game. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:32 Yes, uh, yeah, and I feel bad because I'm talking quite a lot, even though this is a panel, but yes, we have been, uh, taking the game into classrooms, sharing it with, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:41 the communities, um, I just came back, uh, this morning. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:43 from the Menominee Indian Middle School, uh, we had their entire 6th or 8th grade, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:49 classes, uh, in the auditorium, and they were very, very interested in seeing this game. We had a lot of, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:31:55 kids asking questions about how it was made, um, how… where they can play it, um, and. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:32:01 just very excited to play something that. You know, represents their culture. [Justin Gauthier] 12:32:09 Yeah, and in terms of, like, the future… futurism angle of this. [Amber Samdahl] 12:32:10 Ah. [Justin Gauthier] 12:32:15 When we were at the Midwest Developers Conference, um… We ran into several people in the industry talking over the game and stuff, and it made me realize, like, how lucky I was to be sort of in the pocket of this. [Justin Gauthier] 12:32:30 this project, working with Jacob and Angelina towards, um. [Justin Gauthier] 12:32:36 Writing the narrative was awesome. But it also, at the other end of that, I was really proud that, um, Naneque could be involved. My cousin could be involved, um… in terms for artwork and for language. [Justin Gauthier] 12:32:50 But, um, yeah, it's… coming out the other side, I just think to myself about those… Those, um, youth that. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:00 like, Jacob and Amber presented to in the classrooms, um… Yeah, the… the fact, if there's one of those kids. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:10 that it piques their interest, and they come out of it looking for a job in the video game industry. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:16 And then, who knows, they could make the Indigenous. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:19 Fortnite, or the Indigenous… Minecraft, you know, like… It's just amazing to think about. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:27 the generational… thing that could happen, because I saw it happen with Nani and the Schwitzers. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:34 Brothers, like, you know, they had a dream. They had support, they had foot and handholds. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:40 They had people behind them, pushing them forward. And, you know, look what they achieved with this. So, it's amazing. I think about the future of. [Justin Gauthier] 12:33:50 that future question, not to jump back, but… That future question is really… Uh, in the center of my thinking about it right now, because. [Justin Gauthier] 12:34:00 You never know what's going to come out the other side of this, and it's awesome that this generation. [Justin Gauthier] 12:34:06 The couple generations behind me is… is… Sort of being the tip of the spear on the… It's amazing. [Amber Samdahl] 12:34:15 Thank you. Um… I'm wondering if maybe you all could talk a little bit about some of the development process, um. [Amber Samdahl] 12:34:24 You talked about how, kind of, how the narrative, the concept for the narrative came to play. [Amber Samdahl] 12:34:29 How about the game part of it? Maybe you could talk a little bit about the playtesting process, and… how you went into communities to develop that. [Angelina Shi] 12:34:40 Right, so I can… I'll start… I can start us off on that. So, a lot of the early playtesting we did was internal with the team. [Angelina Shi] 12:34:48 Um, just because we did want to get this out early, um, to have people try it out and see what it was like. [Angelina Shi] 12:34:53 With that, that is a helpful form of playtesting. [Angelina Shi] 12:34:57 Um, for earlier versions, when you don't necessarily want the. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:01 putting incomplete work before the general public. However, once we did end up doing more. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:08 general public testing, we started off. With the public beta, which we just made available on our website. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:15 had a Google Sheets… not Google Sheets, a Google Form link to it. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:20 Um, that people could then fill out as they wished. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:24 Uh, once we played the game. This is… very low effort for us, because we didn't have to go out and hold these, like, law employee tests. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:33 Our final play test for the entire game, like, 2 hours long. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:37 Um, so we… that's a quick way of collecting… collecting information. However, the big issue of collecting information that way is that you don't curate your playtesters at all. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:47 who you're going to get is who you're going to get, in which. [Angelina Shi] 12:35:50 In which case, uh, who we got was overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly male, which is, um… Not precisely the. [Angelina Shi] 12:36:03 all the people that we want to appeal to. Obviously, it's great that they were playing the game, but, um, we also wanted, uh. [Angelina Shi] 12:36:09 other folks to be able to play and enjoy the game. [Angelina Shi] 12:36:12 So that was, like, the community playtesting is, uh, was necessary for us. [Angelina Shi] 12:36:17 was because, um, you just can't… like, put it out there and take what playtesters that come in. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:36:25 Yeah, it also helped, um, being able to take it into the community, uh, so that we could ask, uh, specifically cultural-related, uh, questions. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:36:34 Like, oh, how do… how does the dance minigame feel? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:36:39 with, uh, the specific dance forms. Uh, how does the powwow grounds look? Did we get everything right? Is everything looking correct? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:36:47 Um, how. How is the use of language within the story not only being Menominee language, but also the way that we talk about things? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:36:56 One of the key components of the story is, uh, the families coming up to. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:01 hosted dance special honoring the loss of their grandfather. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:05 And being very sensitive about the way that we're talking about that loss and the way that we're communicating that. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:10 making sure that we're using the right language around that. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:13 So it was very good to get that, uh, specific feedback that we could only get from the community. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:18 And, uh, allowed them to talk about the game and get a sense of it, and, uh, shoot us ideas on, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:25 what adjustments could be made. It was very, very important to get that. [Amber Samdahl] 12:37:34 Were there any surprises along the way for any of you in the project? Anything that came up or that… made you pivot, make a change along the way. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:49 I mean, I'll just start by saying, uh, we had a lot of scope cuts, uh, made, because we started off with this very. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:37:56 Uh, grand blue sky idea, uh, and, uh, along the way, we realized, oh, this would take. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:38:03 almost 8 to 10 years to make the dream game. So, uh, working with Angelina and Justin, uh, we pared down the story, uh, from this. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:38:13 Uh, Epic, uh, weekend-long saga about this family dynamic, uh, down to, uh, the core element, which was the mother and daughter's relationship. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:38:24 So that was kind of the big surprise for me. It's like, oh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:38:28 Uh, we gotta take this and reduce it down to its, uh, most… Core elements. [Amber Samdahl] 12:38:36 Anyone else? [Justin Gauthier] 12:38:37 Yeah, I'll speak for the narrative meetings that we had. [Justin Gauthier] 12:38:41 I think the surprising thing. For me, it was like… Being able to bring… Ideas to that, um, because MFA and screenwriting, so… the actual document itself. [Justin Gauthier] 12:38:55 You know, the script itself was written in screenplay format. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:00 And then that was basically adapted by the team into gameplay. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:04 Um, which was super interesting to be a part of that process. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:09 The other thing that kind of surprised me was how much of my. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:13 My, like, initial. Ideas of what the game should be actually made it into the final product, because we… At the time, you know, with a process like this, if other creators out there are looking to start this. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:30 I just remember one thing, one of my mentors used to say. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:33 And I was just kind of, yeah, yadd about it. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:36 But she would say, like. When you're trying to do something, it takes the time it takes. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:43 In that, if you have deadlines, you have goals that you have to hit. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:48 And they're just not working out. Like, the frustrating part of fitting all that into a shape. [Justin Gauthier] 12:39:56 That just doesn't work for the time frame. can cause, you know, fatigue, it can cause. [Justin Gauthier] 12:40:03 interdepartmental conflict. It can do all kinds of things. [Justin Gauthier] 12:40:07 But approaching it with this idea of, like. If we want to get this. [Justin Gauthier] 12:40:12 product out the other end that's going to take the time it takes. And that was always the… approach that I came to the script with, um… And the idea of this contemporary representation of our community. [Justin Gauthier] 12:40:26 was, uh… It wasn't a one-to-one, because we're in a virtual world, but when I saw what they had done in digitizing the woodland bowl. [Justin Gauthier] 12:40:37 I don't know if these guys can talk about it, but man, my eyes are like… I was like, oh my god, this is incredible, like, this is. [Justin Gauthier] 12:40:44 This is, like… It's beyond what I thought it would be, which is cool, I mean… It was really cool, but then… Also, like, it was… it's kind of cool to be what's considered, like, a junior elder now. I'm, like, in my… [Justin Gauthier] 12:41:01 late 40s, so it's… It's not an official title, but it's like I'm in the farm system. I'm, like, AA. [Justin Gauthier] 12:41:09 elder going to the majors. But, um, yeah, I was able to bring in, like, being a video game. [Justin Gauthier] 12:41:16 fanatic since the ColecoVision Atari days forward. I was able to bring in, and these guys just sat and listened to me talk about, like. [Justin Gauthier] 12:41:26 You know, like, one time out by Shawano Lake, there was a spy hunter sit-down cabin. [Justin Gauthier] 12:41:31 cabinet, and you don't find those anywhere, so I had all these, like, old umc. [Justin Gauthier] 12:41:37 stories about arcades and video games and stuff, and a lot of that got incorporated into. [Justin Gauthier] 12:41:43 The look and feel and tone of the game, which was awesome, you know, that was really cool. [Amber Samdahl] 12:41:49 Yeah, I think, I mean, that's a great topic. [Amber Samdahl] 12:41:52 Go ahead, Naneque, if you had more to add. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:41:54 Yeah, to add a little bit to that is the, you know, the Woodland Bowl where the game is based is… really historically valuable for our people. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:42:06 And, um, seeing how the team. immortalized that place within the virtual world was, like Justin said, it was amazing for Menominee people to see a place where we've grown up and. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:42:23 Ben quite often in… represented in such a beautiful way. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:42:30 Um, to also talk to. Justin's experience writing the script to be, um, you know, in the playwriting style. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:42:41 As someone who, um, translates and does a lot of work with language, it was… Um, very refreshing to see the way that he had written the script had been to be spoken. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:42:55 Um, I think now when we see a lot of writing, um, sometimes, especially with translating language, there's something that's missed where we're not. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:43:07 Um, I guess we're using a certain level of language in writing that isn't necessarily written to be spoken. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:43:15 And so, um, I really appreciated seeing, um, you know, all of his talent that he brought to writing the script to actually be incorporating what it's like to speak as a Menominee person, and so it really, um, was easy for me to incorporate the translation because it's a Menominee person who's writing in the way that we would actually speak. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:43:39 So, that was something that was, like, pleasantly surprising for the script and the project, too. [Amber Samdahl] 12:43:46 Mm-hmm. That's a great note. Um, and yeah, and following up on the comments about the environment, yeah, could you all talk a little bit about how. [Amber Samdahl] 12:43:55 how you made that happen, how you brought it to life. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:44:00 Uh… well, yeah, and I would invite Angelina to join me on this. Um, it… Started off by taking a. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:44:07 a group of, uh… creators, uh, Amber, you were there, um, from both PBS Wisconsin and Nebraska Public Media. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:44:16 Uh, into the actual wooden bowl, onto the Menominee Reservation. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:44:19 Uh, we brought our artists, we brought audio engineers, we brought a lot of folks from different [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:44:26 Uh, so that they could, um… you know, see what it looks like, how it sounds, and uh… make sure that it was recreated correctly. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:44:36 And that even expanded to actually attending the powwow for the last two years, which Angelina joined us for. So, uh, Angelina, if you want to speak about that experience. [Angelina Shi] 12:44:47 Um, yeah, so going to the powwow us, we went there several times to collect. [Angelina Shi] 12:44:54 video, uh, first year, and then audio and audio on both ears. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:01 Um, and so that was very useful, that was very important, um, very useful. There was a lot of. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:06 a lot of work going into the… going into the, um… design of the environment in-game. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:15 Oh, there's a lot of technical stuff with shaders and, um, optimization and so on. I won't bore everyone here with. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:22 Um, but that was a lot of work that the team did put in. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:25 Uh, there was also, of course, we mentioned, uh, licensing the art. So, for example, the beading designs that we licensed. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:32 We're also then implemented into the environment. If you go to one of your Uncle Gerald's. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:39 beading stand, you will find the beading designs there. Um, this little bit of, uh… Um, just adding those little details in. You can find the drummers down at the bowl, not quite as many as they have. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:51 Um, but once again, like, optimization concerns, um, the drummers are down there. [Angelina Shi] 12:45:56 And, uh, the Woodland Bowl sign that is, uh, very iconic is there, so it's a lot of these small details. [Angelina Shi] 12:46:03 Um, that were put in. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:46:05 Yeah. Yeah, and being that a lot of our 3D modelers and our 2D artists were not Menominee. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:46:12 Uh, being able to work with them, take them into the space, and uh, you know, have, uh, everybody get a sense of what this, uh, space looks like, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:46:20 outside the powwow and during the powwow. was very important so that they had the background knowledge for how to create that work. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:46:28 Um, Angelina was our environment, uh, concept artist, uh, on the project. She also, uh, did a lot of other work with that, and we had, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:46:36 3D modelers, uh, base a lot of work off, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:46:40 the reference footage that we had and the work that Angelina did to recreate this space as authentically as it's depicted. [Amber Samdahl] 12:46:52 What lessons, um, as, you know. You're looking back at this project, what lessons would you want to share with others interested in doing these types of. [Amber Samdahl] 12:47:02 community collaborations, um, you know, from other stations, from other places around the country? What kind of. [Amber Samdahl] 12:47:08 lessons learned, would you all share with them? advice? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:47:16 Uh, I would just start by saying, you know, these… collaborations with your local communities are very valuable. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:47:23 Um, these are the stories that we're telling in public media. We're telling the stories about. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:47:28 Uh, you know, the folks that live within our regions, and making sure that we're lifting up their stories. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:47:34 Uh, where in private media, they wouldn't have the opportunity to be told. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:47:39 Um, so yeah, begin, uh… creating these collaborations, uh, around the state. Pps Wisconsin has been. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:47:46 working with the Native tribes for well over 50 years at this point, so, uh… By creating those relationships and, uh, continuing those in good faith. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:47:57 you're allowed to, uh… make content like this, uh, that couldn't be done, and speaks very well to those communities. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:48:03 So yeah, I would invite everybody to start reaching out. [Angelina Shi] 12:48:10 We'll also add, uh, when reaching out, definitely. Early is, I think doing it early is definitely better than doing it later. [Angelina Shi] 12:48:17 Um, similar to how you approach playtesting, a lot of the scenes that we, um, were able to. [Angelina Shi] 12:48:23 There were certainly cultural issues that came up in the course of making this game, but we were able to resolve these before we got to, like, public testing. [Angelina Shi] 12:48:32 Um, for showing it to, like, the general public, because we had been in communication with our advisors early on. [Justin Gauthier] 12:48:39 Yeah, I'll say that… I'll resound what Jacob and Angelina said. [Justin Gauthier] 12:48:47 And also add that… I was gonna say that early and often thing, too. [Justin Gauthier] 12:48:51 Um, but, like, the… I know we live in a digital world and a virtual world, we're dealing with AI burgeoning into all forms of media. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:01 The more you can rely on, like, analog communication. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:05 the better, I think, especially if you're dealing with rural communities, rural… tribal communities, um… the more personal the connection. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:17 Face-to-face, a phone call. I know it's scary. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:22 And I don't often pick up numbers I don't recognize either, but, like, you know, like, those sort of, like, entrees into the community. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:30 Getting to know… Um, culture keepers? [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:34 And that's not just… Indigenous-specific. I mean, there's culture keepers and agrarian. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:40 Community is all over. You know, they're these living libraries that are just sitting there waiting. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:46 to be utilized. They have these stories, they have these relationships with people. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:51 And if you're looking to tell the story of your area. [Justin Gauthier] 12:49:56 then the really important thing. is that it changes you as a storyteller. [Justin Gauthier] 12:50:03 Um, it develops your practice, it develops your professionalism, and hey, you just might come out of it with friends that become family. [Justin Gauthier] 12:50:12 You know, um, so, you know, as personal as you can get with that work. [Justin Gauthier] 12:50:18 And as connected. Personally, the better it's gonna be for the project. [Amber Samdahl] 12:50:28 I love that. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:50:31 Um, I would just add on as well. Um, to kind of echo that, that, um, the. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:50:39 wildly good success of this game. has a lot to do with the way that the team has, um, approached and, um… people who are advisors for the authentic representation of the Menominee people. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:50:59 Um, it's really important to see the collaboration that was, was, um, happening throughout this project, and… I think that a lot of people, um, you know, could learn something from seeing the way that Jacob and Angela and their team approached, um. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:51:21 how they collaborate with Native communities, but it's also a testament to say that, um, you know, Jacob and Nick also being Menominee, and, um… being in these, these places and these jobs to, um, be able to create these projects is really important. It's really important that. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:51:43 They, um, put so much work into collaborating with the community in a really respectful way, so… We all appreciate it. [Amber Samdahl] 12:51:49 Mm-hmm. Beautiful sentiment, yes. [Amber Samdahl] 12:51:55 Uh, we do have a few. questions in the chat. Anyone, you know, else who has questions, please put them in there. I'll just read them in order here. The first one… is a tech-specific question. Any surprises on how people are playing this game, uh, in terms of devices or length of play, anything you're seeing since the launch that's been surprising? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:52:18 Uh, we're getting a lot of Chromebook playthroughs, uh, mostly for being in classrooms, and uh… That was something that we expected, and that inspired a lot of the design that went here. Um… being that it's run in a web browser, uh, we stuck with that stylized design and, uh, wanted to make sure that it could run on low-end devices. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:52:38 Oh, go ahead, Angelina. [Angelina Shi] 12:52:38 Oh. I was also gonna just really quickly add, we also released the game on Steam, which also has its own. [Angelina Shi] 12:52:46 Uh, sort of unique audience, so Jacob would… I'll be able to say more on that? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:52:51 Yeah, uh, we just released on Steam, um, and we have been seeing more international folks playing the game. We've had, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:52:58 British players, Polish players, uh, coming through. Um, so it's been very interesting to see. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:53:04 Uh, the different demographics that are coming based on each platform. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:53:08 Web seems to be sticking more towards the United States. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:53:12 And, uh, Steam seems to be going more international. [Amber Samdahl] 12:53:16 And it seems like people are… playing, you know, the length of play and the length of time people are spending on the site is… It's definitely demonstrating that. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:53:27 Yeah. [Amber Samdahl] 12:53:29 Great. Um, next question. What is next for this project? Will there be a sequel or companion video series? [Amber Samdahl] 12:53:35 Anything else planned? [Angelina Shi] 12:53:38 Um, so, I believe we are planning on doing a Monami language translation of that. [Angelina Shi] 12:53:43 So that is in the early stages of. discussing, um, how that's going to be. [Angelina Shi] 12:53:50 On how that's going to be doing, uh, done. Um, but yeah, the plan is to have this translated entirely into anomni. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:53:57 Yeah. Yeah, so working with our, uh, Menominee U, uh, group. [Angelina Shi] 12:53:57 Not me. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:54:01 And, uh, you know, making sure that, uh, we're paying them for the work that they're doing, because this is not easy work, uh, translating a game into, uh, another language, so… Uh, yeah, I'm very excited to see, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:54:14 that pan out. [Angelina Shi] 12:54:15 I've heard that they may have to… may have to invent new words or find… dig deep to find a… appropriate words? [Justin Gauthier] 12:54:25 Yeah, if that happens, it's gonna be, like, the culmination of. [Justin Gauthier] 12:54:32 dream that Ronco and I have talked about. I mean, mostly coming from my side, like, he's super busy with the language stuff. [Justin Gauthier] 12:54:39 But as I was… as soon as I got out of my master's program, I was like, oh my god, it would be amazing to. [Justin Gauthier] 12:54:46 to use the format of… screenwriting to tell a story. [Justin Gauthier] 12:54:51 in Menominee language. So I'm excited if that does happen, what sort of discoveries. [Justin Gauthier] 12:54:57 Facets of the language get utilized within [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:55:03 I'm also really excited at this prospect, um, for different reasons. [Amber Samdahl] 12:55:03 And we'll be… [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:55:08 One of them being, um, how Angela said, you know, we might have to find new words or create new words to be able to describe these things. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:55:17 But that's a great sign of, like, a living language that's evolving. And so, um, it makes us language learners and speakers very excited. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:55:27 that this type of format can be used to, um, teach people the language. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 12:55:34 in the way of, um, it being a video game, you're hearing the audio being spoken, so being translated into Menominee, and then, um, spoken within the game is another way for our language to continue evolving, so… [Amber Samdahl] 12:55:54 Very exciting. I'm excited to share with everyone here once that is out in the world. [Amber Samdahl] 12:56:01 Uh, we have one more question in here. How important has mobile compatibility been with this project? We could talk about how you… picked the format that you picked. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:56:11 Yeah, so, uh, unfortunately, this game is not available on mobile devices. That is, uh, entirely due to the limitations of the software. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:56:20 that we're using, um, we utilize, uh, the Unity game engine. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:56:25 Uh, for this game, and about halfway through development, uh, they put out a new version of the engine that made it much easier to play. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:56:34 web games on mobile devices. So, unfortunately, we were unable to update to that. Um, but yeah, our main goal was, uh, to target classrooms, so making it available through the web browser and available on. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:56:47 Chromebooks, uh, was what we were primarily targeting here. [Amber Samdahl] 12:56:55 Any other, um… Thoughts about how you approached accessibility, that kind of… Um, speaks to that a little bit, but how else did you… consider accessibility as you went through the… through the design of this experience. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:57:10 Yeah, um, well, I mean, both our stations have, uh, specific, uh, rules that we have to follow when it comes to accessibility. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:57:18 Um, I was grateful that we were able to work with someone from your user experience team at PPS Wisconsin to help, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:57:28 drive, uh, a lot of the accessibility considerations that we were making. Um, yeah, that was part of our, uh, UI meeting that we had. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:57:37 Um, yeah, and thanks to their work, we were able to make sure that we weren't putting any, uh. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:57:43 unintentional barriers up for players, uh, for this game. [Amber Samdahl] 12:57:49 All right, well, we are almost at time. I just want to end with, um… One more question for you all. [Amber Samdahl] 12:57:56 Um, what impact do you hope this game will have. [Amber Samdahl] 12:57:59 You know, on players, on educators, on the Menominee community, um, and just on public media. [Amber Samdahl] 12:58:07 As we move forward. And the wider games industry, too. I'll just… I'll just open it up to all of that. [Amber Samdahl] 12:58:13 What kind of impact do you hope this will have? [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:58:16 Uh, I hope it invites more people into making content that's more. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:58:21 Driven by the communities. I hope that, uh, folks from Public Media can learn from this and, uh, start reaching out to community members and making. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:58:30 Uh, content, whether that's videos, games, or uh. Other elements, like podcasts, uh, with the community that they serve. [Jacob Schwitzer] 12:58:38 Um, something that we've been seeing as we've been taking this out to places is that we're getting a lot of young folks interested in this because we've worked with the community. So, in a time when we're looking for that younger audience, this might be a way forward for that. [Angelina Shi] 12:58:52 But I think there's also, um… A lot of power in the cross-station collaboration as well. Obviously, this is one instance where the content happened to line up. [Angelina Shi] 12:59:02 Um, but even without the content lining up, there's still, I think, a lot to be said about potentially being able to. [Angelina Shi] 12:59:09 share resources, share knowledge between stations. Because this would not have been possible without folks from both sides. [Justin Gauthier] 12:59:20 Yeah, I'll say… I'll just speak a bit about legacy and… And the fact that Wisconsin PBS, Nebraska. [Justin Gauthier] 12:59:29 Public Television. You know, they… they're some of the media… arms of… Like, pop culture that actually reach out to Indigenous communities and attempt to tell their stories. [Justin Gauthier] 12:59:44 Like, my family is involved and back, uh, that, like, back in the early 70s, like, before PBS was a thing, it was, like, WGBH Boston. [Justin Gauthier] 12:59:54 My dad was like a production assistant on a film that they filmed on the reservation, so… the legacy, like, I'm just proud to be a part of this project because it's a continuing. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:07 thread through… through the legacy that my family has. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:15 Um. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:16 I remember being young. trying to draw. My dad was a really good visual artist, trying to draw, and him looking at it and being like, maybe you should write. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:27 You know, so, um, I took his advice, and um, yeah, so it's just another way, I feel like. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:34 Tribal communities add so much to the surrounding areas that they're in. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:40 All the way down to the names of stuff, like… everyday names I use, Chicago. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:45 Minneapolis, all this stuff. is, like, indigenous. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:50 At its core, you know, and people just toss off words like they don't know where they came from, so. [Justin Gauthier] 13:00:56 Little projects like this help to educate people about. [Justin Gauthier] 13:01:00 where they're at, you know, the land they're standing on, the people that are. [Justin Gauthier] 13:01:04 around them. So, yeah, that's… That's… that's my two cents. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 13:01:13 Uh, I'm, you know, really thankful to have had my part in this project, and. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 13:01:19 One of my hopes is that, um, you know, Menominee people and Indigenous people can continue. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 13:01:26 Um, telling their stories and sharing their skills and talents in such a, um. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 13:01:33 authentic and original and positive way that is having such a. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 13:01:39 positive impact on our own communities and other communities who are seeing these games and playing them, so… I really, um, hope that it keeps branching out. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 13:01:51 Um, to other places, and that, you know, our, um, people get these opportunities. [Wanānīkwew (Naneque LaTender)] 13:01:58 more opportunities like this. So, I went in. [Amber Samdahl] 13:02:04 Well, thank you all so much for joining today. Thank you for the inspiration and all the work and your time today sharing with everybody. Really appreciate it. [Amber Samdahl] 13:02:14 And thanks, everyone, for joining. Hope you all have a great rest of your day.