[Amber Samdahl] 12:06:12 All right, we'll go ahead and get started. Hi everybody, thanks for joining. Happy Juneteenth. [Amber Samdahl] 12:06:17 My name is Amber Samdahl, I'm the Director of Design and Innovation at PBS Wisconsin, and on behalf of my fellow public media innovators colleagues, Chad Davis and David Huppert from PBS North Carolina. [Amber Samdahl] 12:06:31 Thank you for joining us today. We are a public media innovators. [Amber Samdahl] 12:06:36 We are a NETA peer learning community, and I'll put the link in the chat if you want to learn more about our group. [Amber Samdahl] 12:06:43 We're excited to have you all here! Um, before we jump right in with our fantastic presentation today, I'm just going to do a little bit of housekeeping. First, as I mentioned, um, Public Media Innovators is a peer learning community. We do monthly webinars. [Amber Samdahl] 12:06:57 Chad writes a great newsletter. You can head to our site. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:00 to sign up for that. and just a little bit of promotion for next month's webinar. I'll put more information in the chat here. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:08 in July, we will be joined by Maggie Jackson, who's an author of a book called Uncertain. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:13 The wisdom and wonder of being unsure, which feels very relevant at this moment in time for public media. So if you're curious about that, uh, topic, about the book, want to learn how to leverage uncertainty. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:28 At this moment, we really encourage you all to join. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:31 there's information there to sign up for next month's webinar and read more about Maggie's book. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:37 but for today, we're excited to be welcoming Dr. Brittne Kakulla from AARP, and today we're going to be talking about games. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:46 I'm just gonna set up a little bit of context for the talk. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:51 Today, over 205 million Americans play video games, and 28% of them are over the age of 50. [Amber Samdahl] 12:07:59 So, we're going to be exploring and reframing how we think about games and who they're for. [Amber Samdahl] 12:08:04 Older adults are obviously active gamers, and they're often overlooked by the gaming industry, so that presents a really unique opportunity for public media to fill that gap. [Amber Samdahl] 12:08:15 We've long embraced the idea of lifelong learning in public media, and I think it's time for us to also be embracing lifelong play. [Amber Samdahl] 12:08:22 As well. So with that, I'm really happy to introduce Dr. Brittne Kakulla. She's a Senior Research Advisor at AARP. [Amber Samdahl] 12:08:31 In her role, she focuses on how technology, and increasingly gaming and intergenerational play. [Amber Samdahl] 12:08:37 Support social connection, accessibility, and engagement amongst older adults. Her research is helping industries, innovators, and hopefully now public media better understand the opportunities to serve the 50-plus gamer. [Amber Samdahl] 12:08:51 So, Brittne will be giving a presentation here. Please feel free to put questions in the chat, and then at the end, we'll have time for Q&A, and we'll get those questions answered. [Amber Samdahl] 12:09:01 So, thank you again for joining us today, Brittne. I'll let you take it from here. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:09:06 Awesome, awesome. Um, cool. Well, thank you for having me here today to talk about one of my passions. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:09:12 Which is older gamers, more specifically, the 50-plus gaming audience that you might be overlooking. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:09:18 So here's the agenda. I hope by the end of this, you'll agree that older gamers are an untapped opportunity for public media. So first, we'll just talk about the why, why games and why gaming, just to give some context of the topic and support for the focus on older gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:09:33 Next, who is the older gamer? In terms of market size? What do you need to know about them, their attitudes and behaviors? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:09:40 Then, what do older gamers want when it comes to gaming? And lastly, how can public media think differently about play As an aspect of gaming, so that includes intergenerational play, content, and engagement. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:09:52 Then we'll have time at the end for questions and discussions. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:09:56 And so first, I just want to level set for those who don't know. Aarp is not an insurance company. We're an expansive and multifaceted organization that champions advocacy at the national and state level, and we're committed to bridging disparities when it comes to older adults, and that includes, um, technology. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:12 We have a state office in every 50 state and U.S. Territory, with a community of 30 million members and a dedicated force of 40,000 volunteers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:21 We live and breathe adults 50+. But membership is open to anyone of any age. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:28 So, first, let's talk about why games and why gaming. And, you know, Amber had told me that some people might be skeptical about games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:37 And sometimes I get the question, you know, why does AARP care about gaming and gamers? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:42 And, you know, my first part of that is always, you know, older gamers are the OG video game players. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:48 We're talking about the Oregon Trail, which was created in 1971 by a history teacher. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:53 Or Pong, which is considered the first commercially successful video game in 1972. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:10:59 Or the Atari home console, which was released in 1977. The people who were playing those games then are the older gamers of now, because most older gamers, in fact, 2 and 3, have been playing for decades. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:11:14 So, you know, gaming is a part of today's culture, and it's here to stay. You know, at the lizard brain level. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:11:21 Fun, joy, play, these are all human desires from an ethnographic perspective, social connection is an important human need. And gaming is really just a new way to connect with others. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:11:33 As well as to express individuality and creativity. Additionally, cultural and technological shifts have made gaming a mainstream and accepted form of entertainment and leisure activity, especially among generations or people who grew up with technology, or who see gaming or connecting in virtual spaces [Brittne Kakulla] 12:11:52 As engaging as in real life. Additionally, the availability and accessibility of devices, especially the smartphone. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:00 Has made it easier than ever for anyone to play a game anywhere, and the variety of games available ensures there's a game for everyone. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:07 So they're a shooter, word, home decorating, dance, you name it, you could probably find a game for it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:12 Um, and some ethnographies that we've done, which is an observation of human behavior in natural environments to theme up reasons for that. Gaming was actually a gateway to tech adoption. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:24 So when we looked at people who were off the grid, or felt like they didn't want to be involved with technology, they didn't get it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:30 When they got a device, and they were shown the games on that device, and they learned how to play them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:36 They now have developed transferable skills that they're using for tech. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:40 So once you learn how to click a button in Candy Crush, that's the same way that you can click a button to do a voice-to-text. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:46 So, technology… gaming starts to be that techway to using tech more. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:51 And additionally, there's so much variety in the market when we're talking about games and devices. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:12:57 Um, and that access has allowed the industry to grow exponentially. In the last decade, the gaming industry has experienced a 4X growth. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:05 Today is a $260 billion market industry, and that's larger than movies and music combined. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:12 In the US, it's a $113 billion industry, so 43% of the whole gaming market is U.S. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:19 Additionally, in the U.S, gaming, um, involves 205 million players. So, out of 347, um, population, that includes, like, people who are babies. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:30 So, in everyone across all demographics has gamers, so people are playing games, they're out there. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:36 And also, this idea of gamification is another thing that's important. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:41 And this is the idea of taking principles of play or gaming and applying them to other activities, such as learning. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:47 Task management or health compliance. And gamification taps into some of the same social dynamics of gaming and play And it has real-life impact. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:13:57 So, your loyalty rewards program at the grocery store, that's actually a form of gamification. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:03 If you sign up and you collect these points, and you do these things, or you buy this product, then you can earn rewards. It's a game. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:09 So for brands, gamification has been shown to grow engagement, increase purchases, increase foot traffic, boost customer retention. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:18 Accelerate loyalty program participation. Enhanced time spent on-site or in-app, and uncover valuable consumer insights. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:30 So, but more specifically, from a business and market standpoint, games offer a lot of opportunity for brands. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:37 So, one, they can allow brands to connect with new or hard-to-reach consumers. So again, thinking about those loyalty rewards programs. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:45 That's gamification. And who doesn't like free stuff? So people who might not have wanted to engage with the product or with the company. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:52 They might like free stuff. So that's a way to reach them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:14:55 Um, another thing that brands that have a game are embedded in-game brands. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:15:00 Drives awareness and loyalty. So, for example, brands that have immersed themselves in games like Minecraft or Fortnite have experienced significant brand boosts. For example, the brand e.l.f. Beauty, they launched an activation in Robux. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:15:14 And they've created this, like, mini entrepreneurial school So, it's a… where you're running a business, um, but you can link your e.l.f. Beauty Squad Rewards account. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:15:23 You can get freebies, you can purchase products, you can engage with the brand in the game. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:15:28 So there's, like, all this, um, activation there. So this, um, game launched in November of 2023. By April of 2024, ELF reported 22 million engagements with their brand, 50,000 new loyalty sign-ups. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:15:42 And they've enhanced their digital and real-world commerce capabilities, because they're learning about products and things that consumers are interested in. And actually, this year, they just launched another financial literacy game In Roblox. So, you know, thinking about e.l.f, that awareness and that engagement piece is good for them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:16:00 But it also provides something that is so important, um, for brands nowadays, and that's primary data about their customers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:16:08 And having that primary data helps brands make better products and services, and positions them as a digital leader with those consumers, which is another, um, benefit of games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:16:18 Because, um, as we continue to develop in society and tech becomes more embedded in life. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:16:24 People will expect more seamless digital and physical experiences, so brands that are testing and learning now are going to be better set up to meet those, uh, tech experience in the future. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:16:36 So, you know, that's the why of gaming from a business perspective, but there's also that sociological… social mission, human perspective. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:16:45 You know, if we zoom out, gaming is really an aspect of meaningful play or leisure. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:16:49 And the National Institute of Health reports there's robust research that shows people who participate in hobbies and social and leisure activities may actually be at lower risk for health problems. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:17:00 Reduce loneliness, decreased dementia, better cognitive function, memory, self-esteem, and overall quality of life than those who do not. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:17:10 So, and in fact, there are documented studies that have shown some real-life therapeutical and physiological benefits of playing video games on individuals. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:17:19 So, for example, Pokemon Go players increased their daily step count by 1400 steps. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:17:25 So that was a 25% rise over baseline activity levels. Another study found that 20 minutes of casual gaming for a month cut depressive symptoms by 57% among adults 18+. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:17:39 So, some of the other benefits that research have found includes reducing loneliness, improving brain activity. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:17:45 And reducing cortisol, which is a stress hormone. And older adults intuitively agree with this, regardless of age, we found that gamers and non-gamers 50+, see the benefits of play, and about 7 in 10 say that play is important for healthy aging. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:02 Women slightly more than men. In fact, gaming is a type of play, and many gamers feel that gaming benefits them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:11 More specifically, we see as gamers get older, more feel that gaming is good for them as they age. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:16 And gaming helps reduce stress and anxiety. Again, talking specifically about video games for the 50+, the benefits of play for them are mental. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:28 Emotional and physical improvements. We found that 8 in 10 older adults feel that gaming helps them in some kind of way. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:35 And 2 and 3, so 67% of gamers say gaming helps or benefits them with some form of mental improvement. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:43 Now, some researchers have argued that playing video games actually allows people to achieve a state of flow. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:49 And flow is this idea of when your brain is in an optimal experience where nothing else matters, so you're able to focus on one thing. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:18:58 And this state has been found to reduce stress and improve emotional well-being. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:02 So, that's kind of the context of the why of gaming, and it's really trifold. It's for fun. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:08 For business impact and for real-life results in human physical and emotional well-being. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:14 So, you know, now you're totally convinced about gaming, um, the question is, like, what does that have to do with older gamers, and why? And who is the older gamer? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:25 Well, older gamers are a growing market, because older adults are a growing market. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:30 Between now and 2030, which is just in 5 years. The under 40 age population in the U.S. Is projected to decline, while the 40-plus population will grow. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:42 So, in 2030, half of the U.S. Population will be 40 or older. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:47 And between now and 2030, 11,000 boomers are turning 65 every day. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:19:52 By 2030, all boomers will be 65 or older. All Gen X will be 50+, And millennials will start turning 50. So you can't ignore a demographic this large. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:04 And one of the things that we've found that's consistently important to older adults, they value independence and freedom. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:11 And staying sharp mentally helps them to live those values. And indeed, we found that among adults age 45 plus. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:19 4 and 5 believe that it's important to keep your brain active and to learn something for yourself. And 7 and 10 say that learning something keeps them vibrant. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:30 So, you know, we've got all these older adults who are going to be in society. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:34 And what are they doing? Well, one thing they're doing is they're continuing the hobbies that they've had. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:39 And enjoying the entertainment the way that they've done, and gaming is part of that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:43 So, the 50 plus gamer audience is expected to grow 34%, and the 40-plus gamer size. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:20:51 Is also expected to grow 20% to 95 million adults. If you look at the chart, we can see that the 40-plus crowd is actually approaching parity to younger gamers, whose growth will be relatively flat over the next 5 years. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:21:07 So, you know, indeed, they're continuing, um, what they're doing, they're looking for new stuff, and, you know, another data point to that is that they're already searching for games for them. Um, we see that growth in people searching games for older people [Brittne Kakulla] 12:21:22 Is up 300% since 2020. And, you know, in fact, right now, 52 million adults age 50 plus are gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:21:31 And that's about half of older adults. And AARP has been looking at older gamers for a while. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:21:37 Because gaming is important to us on the three fronts that I mentioned. Um, for business. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:21:42 For our brand and for our social impact mission. So gaming among the 50-plus has continued to grow. So we first looked at gamers in 2016, We found about 36% of 50-plus were gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:21:55 Um, in 2020, that number is at 45%. Um, recently, um, the ESA released figures And they're, um, estimating 50% of the 50-plus are gamers, so that's that 52 million number. Um, but I found consistent findings in our annual tech trends [Brittne Kakulla] 12:22:11 Which was, um, this year as well, that 50% of adults 50-plus are using their smartphone for gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:22:19 And, you know, when we talk about older gamers, one thing that we've consistently found is among the 50-plus. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:22:24 Women are more gamers than men, and they continue to gain more frequently. So over half of female gamers age 50 plus play every day. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:22:33 Compared to a third of male gamers. And smartphones are the device of choice for older gamers, and most play every day. And in fact, 30% play only from a smartphone. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:22:48 So, I want to make a point here, um, you know, whenever you're talking about people, particularly large groups of people. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:22:55 It's not a monolith, they're not all the same. There's not one type of gamer, there's not one type of older gamer. We know this. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:02 So, in our study, um, we took the large group of older adults and gamers that we had. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:07 And we did some modeling to identify the 50-plus gamer segment. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:11 So, I'm not gonna go into, like, too much detail on how the sausage is made, but I'll tell you, we looked at responses to 6 key areas of focus to identify differences, similarities, and groupings. So the six variables were age, device ownership. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:26 Gaming frequency, gaming motivation, importance. Um, top motivators and reasons for playing. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:33 So based on those questions, we saw 5 distinct groups that we placed on a spectrum from less passionate about gaming to most passionate. So I'm going to quickly, um, go through those segments. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:44 So first, we're calling the dabblers. And this is the group that plays every once in a while, usually when they're bored. Um, this is our oldest group of gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:53 Um, these are the people who are like, oh, I have a game on my phone, I'm sitting here, I'm waiting, uh, might as well just play a game. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:23:59 Um, some play on mobile, but most play on PC. Next, in accounting for one-third of all 50-plus gamers, this is the stereotypical casual gamer. This is the mainstreamer. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:24:10 They play pretty frequently, but they don't really feel tied to gaming. They're playing for enjoyment and for mental stimulation. So if we're thinking Wordle, this is, like, the key group of Wordle players. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:24:22 Our third group, um, we're calling the indulgers. This group, they play daily, often casino or card games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:24:29 And sometimes I feel guilty about how frequently they play, but their play is often motivated by reducing stress. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:24:36 So, at this point, with these three segments, we've addressed most of the 50-plus market, because 73% of older gamers fall in the first 3 categories. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:24:46 So the last two groups are smaller, but they're groups that are more serious about gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:24:51 So, the fourth group we're calling the enthusiasts, and this group, they enjoy games, they enjoy gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:24:57 They play a lot of gaming genres compared to some of the other groups, so they'll just, you know, try stuff, try lots of different things. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:04 They play for entertainment, and they want a story and a compelling gamography, so they want a universe, they want to go deep into it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:11 And then finally, uh, the fifth group, we're calling the immersives. These are the die-hard gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:17 This group is passionate about gaming, they see it as part of their identity. They've been playing the longest. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:23 These are the heaviest players, they play from a variety of devices, they play the most complicated genres. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:28 And they spend the most money when it comes to gaming. So small but mighty. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:33 So, you know, I know I just told you that not all gamers are the same, don't think about them as a monolith. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:40 But just to, like, circle back on that, there are some things that they can agree on as a group. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:46 And, you know, we know that while some segments prefer specific genres over others. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:51 In general, older gamers play everything. So, but there are some specific, um, large group genre preferences. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:25:58 And those top 3 are what you see here. So, puzzle and logic games, like a Candy Crush, um, that's the top, uh, choice. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:05 Next, card and tile, so like a mahjong or a solitaire. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:09 And then third, words. So, again, like a Wordle. These are the top preferences. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:14 And the top played games by older gamers. And, you know, in our previous research, we used to group word with tile. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:22 Um, so word and tile games were together. But, you know, there's this little game that came out called Wordle. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:27 And that basically, like, blew the category up, so we had to break that out and look at it specifically, um, by itself. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:34 And again, you know, going back earlier. Um, when I was talking about the business case of gamings, like, I think Wordle is a perfect example of that impact. Um, you know, this is a real-life example of the power of gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:46 So this chart shows downloads of the New York Times apps, their, um, the entire portfolio, and the yellow is Wordle, and how that impacts the whole portfolio. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:26:56 So we can see the outsized impact of the games app on the overall portfolio of downloads for the times after it was acquired in January 2022. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:27:07 So, brought in a whole bunch of new people, new audiences, um, and people downloading the app, which is, again, giving them new data. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:27:17 So, you know, one thing that all gamers can also agree on. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:27:22 Um, is some of the reasons for playing. And fun is number one for everyone. So, you know, young and old, like, if it's not fun, what's the point? Why are you doing it? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:27:31 Um, obviously. But one of the things that is unique to older gamers, and that we, um, have consistently found, is that they see relaxation and staying sharp, or mental acuity. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:27:43 As highly important to them for gaming compared to younger adults. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:27:46 And in fact, we see that staying sharp is one of the top reasons for the 50-plus to say that they game, and it's not in the top at all for younger gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:27:56 So again, it's that idea of, um, I'm doing this, keeping my brain sharp, constantly learning something, being mentally challenged. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:04 And, you know, in fact, when we trended the motivations for gaming over the years, among the 50-plus gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:11 As they age, this intrinsic motivation for gaming really just grows in importance. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:16 And so here we can see that reducing stress has grown significantly. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:21 In 2019, 57% said reducing stress was a reason for gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:26 In 2022, that number has gone up to 71%. And I didn't, um… there's, like, a whole lot of data in the, um, the main larger report, if you want to look at that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:35 We've got some stuff, um, showing different groups and how they're gaming, um, lots of different engagements. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:40 So I didn't go into the data about, um, groups in this, but some of the groups that increased their gaming behavior in those, you know, stress was important to them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:28:49 Post-covid included women, Blacks, and those in their 50s. And, you know, if you think about it, these are all prime groups that have likely been under extreme stress over the last few years. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:01 If you think about caregiving and civil unrest and economic uncertainty, you know, these groups are likely impacted the most by all the stuff that's going on. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:10 And many of them have turned to gaming to help reduce stress from that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:15 So, you know, lastly, I want to make the case for intergenerational play. Most older gamers play solo. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:21 But when they do play with others, they're playing with children or grandchildren. And about half of older gamers are grandparents. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:30 So, you know, now you should have an idea of why gaming, why older gamers, and who they are. So hopefully, the juices are flowing, and you're thinking about Like, how to tap into this market? Well, you know, I think to do that, it's important to make sure you know what they want. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:46 And one thing that older gamers want is games that are inclusive or representative of who they are as older gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:53 They want games with features and characters that are customizable for older adults. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:29:58 In fact, 3 and 4 agree that video games should be more inclusive with older adults. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:30:05 And additionally, you know, most older gamers feel like an afterthought in the gaming industry. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:30:10 So while that doesn't impede their interest. I definitely think it's resulted in a marginalized audience that has significant potential. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:30:18 Because older gamers, that's what they want. They want to be included, and not marginalized. But right now, many do not feel reflected in the marketing The game design or the gameplay, such as character appearances, the storylines. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:30:31 Or the strategy development. And we see that as age increases, more older gamers feel marginalized by the industry. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:30:38 So, when gamers were in their 40s, about half feel that games aren't designed for them, but by age 70, 3 fourths feel that games aren't designed for them. So older gamers want to be included. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:30:50 But not in a stereotypical way. So in some of the social listening that we've done, and that's looking at, um, long-form social content, blogs, Reddit posts, things like that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:01 Um, what older gamers are talking about, they've noted this, like, they realize, they feel ignored, they see that they're being ignored. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:08 But if the option is a stereotypical representation of them, then they don't want it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:13 So, like, you know, they would love to see, like, an older character in Mario Bros. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:18 But if you're gonna do, like, a Grandpa Mario, and you're gonna make him, like, super slow, and, you know, he can't do what the other characters do, and then it's like, don't bother. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:26 So that's important, um, to be included, but not stereotyped or marginalized. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:32 And, you know, I mentioned, um, before that they feel that they're not represented in games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:37 So, we did an analysis this year, and one of the things that we found is that that feeling is a fact. So we analyzed, um, the top games from the Steam, which is a gaming platform. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:31:48 The top 100 games of 2024. And looked at age representation among the characters. And age representation was missing for preset and customizable characters. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:32:00 So, for the games where the characters are already set, and you can choose who you want to play, only 7 had some type of characterization that looked like they were an older character that could be 50-plus. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:32:12 So, those are the games where it's already set. And then, um, there's some games where you can customize your character. You can be who you want to be Um, so in those games that allow customization. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:32:22 Only 44% allowed some type of customization where you could present your character as being older, as age 50+. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:32:31 So, you know, it's not just a feeling that they're not being recognized. It's a fact. We see that it's a thing out there. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:32:38 So now, I'm gonna play a comment from an older gamer in her words about Asia inclusion in gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:32:45 I think it is very important that the… gaming industry starts, including elderly folks. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:32:53 And the, um, gaming… world, not complicated, brain-enhancing games, things that keep them from being bored and lonely. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:02 Things that keep them off of dating websites, just to talk to people that are going to take advantage of them and steal their money. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:10 Games that… and keep them from… alcoholism, and… and suicide, and loneliness. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:18 Things that are easy for them to do. Things that are easy to understand, things that don't cost them money. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:25 Things that they can do to kill the boredom, because our bodies break down, and I'm gonna be 60, and I can't move like I used to. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:32 And it keeps me from thinking about all the loneliness that living alone when you get older. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:38 Brings on. So that's… And it has to be marketed correctly. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:44 So, you know, as we just heard, um, the… in the video, she was talking about, you know, older gamers, they want to be in the gaming world, give them games for them, and give them games that they can play. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:55 And that's, you know, important to them. That's what they want. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:33:58 Um, older gamers want to… they struggle finding games made for them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:02 Those in their 70 plus are actually more likely to say they struggle with finding games made for them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:08 So 39% agree that they can find games for them, compared to 57% of those in their 40s. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:16 You know, and they also want games that they can jump in and out of, but that still challenge them and let them improve. So again, going back to that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:24 Staying sharp, mental acuity aspect. Of, um, you know, brain health Um, so they want games that reward skill, and not pay for play. So you get to the new next level. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:35 Based on how good you are, not because you paid another $5 or whatever, or bought the skin. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:41 So, you know, here we see a list of some specific game features that are important. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:46 But if you notice, like, all of these resonate, again, with the motivation of older gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:34:51 Which is that continual mental sharpness and that learning. So they want games that they feel like provide them some type of cognitive benefit, they're easy to jump in with intuitive instructions, and it's not going to create a lot of mental burden [Brittne Kakulla] 12:35:06 To play or to remember how to play when you jump in and jump out of it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:35:11 And more specifically, they want features that encourage inclusivity regardless of skill and dexterity. So that includes things like font size, adjustable difficulty settings, being able to modify the background noise. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:35:25 These are all things that make games customizable and inclusive. You know, and lastly, older gamers want real and personal connections to games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:35:35 So again, going back to the social listening, and some of those natural conversations. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:35:40 Gamers were talking about, um, they want connections that are facilitated by the gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:35:47 Or the content themselves. So, a multi-generational or junior version of the games that they play, so they can play it with younger generations. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:35:55 Um, they want private communities where they can talk to other people their age to talk about gaming, and not feel like, um, they're gonna be ostracized when they're in some of the younger spaces and talking about gaming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:36:06 And I think these last three are in public media's wheelhouse. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:36:10 Because one of the things it says, they want mixed media stories. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:36:14 So a game that's an extension of a book, or a movie, or a show. So it really allows them to continue their engagement with a topic or a content to go deeper in, or a new perspective within a known universe. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:36:28 So again, it's about going deeper in some content that you have a connection with. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:36:33 Or even just better storylines. Like, some of the games, um, they feel like are just a money play. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:36:39 And they're not really engaging, because the story is not really engaging. They just want you to pay for play. And that's also one of the reasons we've found that retro gaming is Um, uh, popular with older adults, because a lot of them feel like the games from before, they gave you that context, and you had to be good at it to pass, and there was more of a story there. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:36:58 Than just, like, slick graphics and fast play. So, you know, thinking about, um, these last three, I think some of the public media content has really great storytelling built into it, and that definitely could translate to a game. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:37:14 So, you know, now I want to give the last word about what older gamers want. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:37:19 Two older gamers. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:37:20 People who design these games believe that their audience is the younger generation, the teenagers, the younger kids. We want to feel included. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:37:31 Um, and what's going on in that industry. We like to be entertained. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:37:38 We like to be challenged. We like a good escape. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:37:43 And we'd like it to be simple enough for us to understand. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:37:46 So those are some of the things, I think, that might make video games more targeted to, um, someone who's older. The other thing is to… not give up on us in the more sophisticated gaming environments. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:02 And offer… I don't know, maybe, like, historical exploration. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:09 Games where, basically, you get to be, like, a reporter in some situation. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:14 Events as they kind of happen? I would… Ask the gaming industry to come up with more immersive games, games that don't necessarily have an endgame. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:25 But that will be a perpetual universe that will just keep going, and you just keep building, because when you have games like that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:34 You keep your audience engaged. Keep it up and give us more, because we love it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:40 And the vintage, you know heartstring stuff from our childhood, that really… is neat, and we like that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:50 So, that leads to the explicit question, in our last piece. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:38:55 How can public media think differently about play? So, these next two slides are really just some thought starters that, you know, I've come up with, not comprehensive. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:39:05 You know, open for discussion, but just thinking about, um, public media. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:39:09 So, in 2024, I released a gaming report titled Gaming for All, and that, um, focused on inclusivity and accessibility For older adults, like, what they want and need in order to continue playing. And I think that public media could build on this and really reframe it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:39:26 With play, but under that same lens. So, embody play for all, and really, it's, you know, make that as an inclusive, intergenerational. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:39:35 And help promoting public good. So this isn't just saying, you know, creating a game for some existing IP, which is a suggestion, but this is thinking broader about play and how to make that across generations. Um, so this could be something like spotlighting play as a part of healthy aging through conversations and programming. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:39:56 And encouraging or sponsoring intergenerational gaming or game nights in local communities. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:40:01 Um, also championing diverse and unique voices in gaming. Sometimes our publications We'll run gaming content, and they always will include popular, um, gamers on social media. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:40:13 So, like, there's this one guy, Grandpa Gamer, who's on YouTube, former military, former sniper, 72 years old, and he likes to play shooter games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:40:22 So he shows himself playing the shooter game, but then he gives tips about, you know, being a sniper, and how you would have to play the game as a shooter. So, you know, things like that, championing those divorce… those voices and bringing that to light. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:40:33 You know, on the business side, um, I think there's an opportunity to gamify engagement. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:40:38 What about a PBS Rewards program, where you could earn swag or a shout-out in the magazine, or something like that? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:40:45 And then, of course, you know, there is the developing actual games from the content. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:40:50 So, for example, the Ken Burns Library is a rich resource, and we know that history is a known love topic among older adults, and it's also a topic that grandparents want to share with their grandchildren So you could create a time-traveling history game, or a trivia game, just on one of the specific videos. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:41:08 Or even monetize, um, some of the narratives with game developers based on the content. Because again, you know, they want games that are richer, you've got all of this information, this context, historically, why not, um, monetize that? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:41:24 So, you know, these are just some ideas that I was, you know, trying to think of how to, um, uh, give some, like. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:41:30 Concrete ideas. And there are a lot of, like, ideation, or how might we activities that you guys could do as well to come up with tactics for incorporating games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:41:40 But the biggest thing that I would say is really just to recognize the opportunity and where public media has the permission to play, and then just to start. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:41:50 So, um, this spring I was on a South By, um, panel on gaming, and one of my panelists, Yost. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:41:56 He, as a NYU professor about gaming, and he wrote this article on how brands can use games to build relationships. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:42:03 And what he suggests is a crawl-walk framework… crawl, walk, run framework. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:42:09 And basically, crawl is where you start small, you test where to play, sponsor small events. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:42:15 Do some in-game ads, see what you get. Measure that, and then iterate. A walk is where you actually test different genres of games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:42:23 Um, to engage different audiences, identify new audiences, come up with new, different messages for different, um, audiences, and see what you get, again. And the run, that's the full sprint embrace of gaming as a form of media. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:42:37 Creating branded games, um, including game campaigns in new content. So gaming is really baked in to the strategy when it comes to, um, media. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:42:48 So, you know, I was looking out there, just, like, what was available, um, for public media. There's so much… good content on the PBS Kids. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:42:56 But, you know, thinking again, like, for… from a gaming perspective and play, why not extend that to families? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:04 Um, you know, so instead of PBS Kids games, PBS Family games. You know, and for some of the games, it could be just a slight tweak. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:11 So, one of the games, you know, there's, like, this author game. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:15 And it's like, you know, you're making a healthy meal, it's called Arthur's Lunch-O-Matic. So you're, like, making a healthy meal, and you've got the lunch lady. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:22 And, um, the teacher, and you, like, pick what they're telling you to play, and it has to be, like, a good, healthy meal. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:28 But, you know, something like that, you could literally just add a multiplayer component to that with a parent. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:33 Being the lunch lady, and now you're competing on who's making the healthiest meal. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:38 And that's making that intergenerational. So, you know, small tweaks like that could be added to, um, things that are already existing to, uh, to broaden the idea of play. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:43:51 Um, and then, you know, again, this is just, uh, for disclosure. I use ChatGPT to reimagine what that, like, PBS family would look like, so that's what that, um, image is. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:44:02 So that was my last, um, slide. Uh, before we get to questions, I did want to show… um, so we've put together… ARP's put together a, um, page with a lot of the resources Related to gaming that I've talked about, so that's his Gaming Without Age Limits. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:44:19 And then this deck that I just presented, here's the QR code for that as well. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:44:25 So I'll leave that up for a minute, and now I will, um, stop sharing. [Amber Samdahl] 12:44:33 Thank you so much, Brittne, that was fantastic. Um… a lot of really great data. I look forward to diving into it again and looking at all the details there. We did have some questions come up, and I encourage everyone to throw more questions in the chat. [Amber Samdahl] 12:44:49 Um, first, there was some questions about VR. Do you have any… have you seen any data on older gamers using VR? [Amber Samdahl] 12:44:56 And a part two to that is, in particular, any data around exercise as a motivation Um, for gaming as well. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:04 So, so the first part for the VR, it still continues to be, um, niche. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:08 And I think there are a couple things. One, the content is, like, not really there. There's not that much there, if you go to some of the VR stuff. So there's a content piece. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:18 And the price points as well, like, those devices are still pretty, um, pricey, pretty expensive. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:24 So, um, another aspect of tech adoption is being able to, like, try it out. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:30 And the price points for some of those VR devices, it's not very easy to, like, oh, let me try this out, and if I don't like it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:36 Then, you know, I could, you know, I tried it and I don't like it. So, um, adoption for VR, it continues to be moderate. In our annual tech trends, um, study. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:46 It's below 10%. And it's been drips and drops for the last, um. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:45:52 5 years, I think, since we've looked at it. And then, um, the second question was about… [Amber Samdahl] 12:45:59 Exercise as a motivation for gaming. Have you seen any information about that? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:46:03 So… so it, um… It could be because intrinsically, like, is this doing something, um, for me? Like, it's benefiting me? But we've looked at, um, so I've done another study looking at health apps. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:46:16 And looking at it, so why people will adopt that, and why they stop it. And one of the reasons that people, um, you know. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:46:24 Do not, or they stop using, like, a health app, which, again, is using gamification, if you think about it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:46:30 Is they start to feel bad if they're not reaching the goals. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:46:34 Or they feel like they're being too, you know, tied to the device, like, they're not doing it for intrinsic value, they're doing it for this external motivation. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:46:43 And again, that brings up some type of, like, negative feeling, or they feel like it's, um, intrusive, like there's too many notifications, it's getting on my nerves. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:46:51 You know, it's like, it's all the time, it's like, ugh. So… That, um… there is an opportunity there, but it needs to be positioned with the right audience. Like, there are some Again, there was also some segmentation with the health, um, the health apps as well. So there are some people [Brittne Kakulla] 12:47:07 Who are, like, the ambassadors for using technology for health. And those are the ones to focus on, because, um, for most technology and most products in general. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:47:17 People learn from friends and family, so social media is, um, at this point, it's like the second thing, but friends and family is where most people learn about new products and services. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:47:27 New, um, new apps, all that. So, focusing on those ambassadors who are using the tech in a certain way, or those apps. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:47:36 That's a way to, um, boost adoption, but just saying, like, oh, we're gonna focus on, you know, health, the health aspects of this. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:47:44 Is not as much of a, um… value add as the focus on the intrinsic Um, cognitive benefit, mental well… improving your mental well-being. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:47:56 Um, this is… you're doing it for you, that aspect. [Amber Samdahl] 12:48:00 Yeah, that's great, and I can relate to a lot of those you were hearing about reactions to health apps. [Amber Samdahl] 12:48:07 Um, we had another great question, um, I will just read the full statement here. [Amber Samdahl] 12:48:13 I noticed recently that the New York Times added a Games tab to their core New York Times app. [Amber Samdahl] 12:48:18 Which I thought was an interesting acknowledgement that for some users at least, having a whole separate app was a barrier to the game's content reaching a wider audience. [Amber Samdahl] 12:48:27 When we all think about integrating games into our content offerings within public media, what kinds of scaffolding should we be thinking about? [Amber Samdahl] 12:48:35 To accommodate and welcome in older gamers. The kind that will make them feel welcome. [Amber Samdahl] 12:48:41 What should we be thinking about? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:48:41 So, that is a UX question, and you would need to look at what your consumers, um, like, what are they experienced with, and what's their expectation. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:48:52 So, like, ARP has an app, it's called ARP Now, and that's, um, that's the same experience that we had. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:48:59 So, before on the app, you had, like, news, you had events, and then you could click the link to go out to the games. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:49:06 But people were like, okay, why do I need to do all that if I just want to play the game here? So they have actually remodeled it to make that link to be right there, because for some people, that's all they care about. So it really depends on the users and what the expectation is. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:49:22 And I think, you know, with the times, that's probably, um, what they found as well. You know, you saw how, you know, the portfolio went up once they introduced Wordle. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:49:31 So some people, that's the way to engage them. And, you know, another thing with, like, our app. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:49:38 That, um, that games piece up front is, again, another, um. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:49:43 Gateway to additional adoption, because you're right there, you… maybe you came for the game, but then you saw something else that was interesting, so now you're looking at that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:49:52 But again, that content is, like, right there. So, you know, it's like, I don't have, like, a silver bullet recommendation, that… because that's… that's a UX issue. [Amber Samdahl] 12:50:02 I don't know, that's great advice. All right, next question. What does the data say about each decade of mature gamers? Do 50s want something different than 60s versus older decades? [Amber Samdahl] 12:50:14 Um, half of the older population have played games since Pong. [Amber Samdahl] 12:50:18 Whereas the older generations would not have, so I would like to see what the voices are saying from each decade. [Amber Samdahl] 12:50:24 Which would allow for media makers slash storytellers to avoid falling into the trap of lumping all older gamers together, much like you said, it's not a monolith. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:50:31 Yeah, so, well, the first thing I would say is it's not so much decade, because age is not the factor, it's all the other Um, variables. And, you know, my area of focus is technology and older adults, and that's one of, like, the main [Brittne Kakulla] 12:50:46 Myth bust that I always have to do, like, don't just assume the age of someone makes them, like, they're afraid of adopting tech, or they're not gonna do X, Y, and Z. So, age is a factor, but it's not a key driver. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:50:57 It's the attitudes, the experiences, the people in their life that are exposing them to new things. So there's all this, like, other variables involved. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:51:06 Um, I can say, like, generally, um, for techno… for gaming, like, we see the genres that Um, that older adults like to play. There are some differences. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:51:16 There, compared to younger gamers. And, um, in that 2024 report that was focused on, like, accessibility and inclusive… inclusivity. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:51:25 There are some Asia-related declines that everyone experiences, including older gamers That sometimes makes it harder to play some of the games. So that's their, you know, idea, the games are not designed for me. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:51:36 Because if the game is focused on a fast play, on, you know, small buttons, and you need to do this, do that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:51:42 Um, as you age, your response time gets slower. Your, um, uh, vision gets harder, so there's, like, some modes in games Where they consider it a cheat if you change the contrast. So, because, you know, older adults, the vision's there, but changing the contrast is somehow a cheat. So, it's things like that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:52:02 Um, so it, again, it goes back to, um. Like, what is… finding permission to play, and then seeing how the audience, um, responds to that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:52:13 But in general, um, and another thing with older adults is, uh, retro. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:52:18 So that's something that is available to them, but retro is also a generational thing, so what is my retro, you know, as a Gen X, is very different than, you know, a retro of those original Pong players. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:52:33 So, again, it's always the first piece is to understand the consumer. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:52:38 And find out where there's permission to play, and then, um, work in a non-stereotypical way. And you do that by The age-inclusive design, which is including those people in all aspects of the ideation, so… As you're thinking about, you know, games, and you've talked to older consumers, they're part of that conversation. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:52:58 As you're designing it, you've included them in the UX as well. They're part of that conversation. The marketing includes them as well, so they're part of that, um, the visuals. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:53:07 So, it all ties together. [Amber Samdahl] 12:53:10 You know, you mentioned the, um… The myth-busting. I was wondering, you talked a little about this in the South by Southwest talk, but could you maybe share a little bit about the typical stereotypes and do some myth-busting for us today on… [Amber Samdahl] 12:53:25 And why those stereotypes aren't necessarily true. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:53:27 Oh. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:53:30 So, well, the first, um, was that they're not gaming, and we already see that, you know, about half of the 50-plus, they play some type of game. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:53:38 Um, and then next, it's like, okay, well, what type of game are they playing? Um, casual gamers is the top group, so there is some truth to the Candy Crush Um, Grandma, you know, my mom plays that, my grandma plays it too, I've played it when they ask. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:53:54 But they're more than that. So again, it's like, you know, there might be some aspect of truth in there, but go beyond that. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:54:01 Um, the next is that their devices are old, so they can't do certain things. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:54:06 Um, in the tech trends, we found that actually 62% of older adults have a device that… a smartphone that was purchased in the last 2 years. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:54:16 So, that's a relatively new phone. They can do all the new apps, they can download the stuff Um, you know, it's not that they can't use that technology, or that it's not accessible to them. They could… they could do that if they [Brittne Kakulla] 12:54:30 See the value for it, and if they, um, if it's presented in a way that is meaningful to them. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:54:37 And I think that's, um, another, um. Disconnect with the industry in general and older adults. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:54:45 Because older consumers… technology is a tool. So, it should do something, it should help me, it should serve a function. There's this idea in industry that almost, like. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:54:56 Shiny is best, what's new is best, and sometimes that what's new is, like, doesn't even have a use case, but it's just cool because it's new, so you should want to use it. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:55:05 But, you know, the older consumer is like, well, what is the point of this? Like, what am I doing with this? How has this helped me? I think that's one of the barriers that we've seen in AI adoption, and I've got this AI study [Brittne Kakulla] 12:55:17 That I'm working on, this, like, completely… not related to gaming, but, you know, a lot of the AI stuff has been positioned as Okay, it's for the consumer to figure out the use case. And that doesn't really work for older adults, because [Brittne Kakulla] 12:55:30 It's a tool, so tell me, what is this tool gonna do for me? Like, how can I use that? So I'm the consumer to figure it out. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:55:36 So if we position it more as a jobs-to-be-done, there's a reason for this tool. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:55:42 Then I think we could see, um, greater adoption of some of that technology, because now it's like, oh, okay, so that's what this is gonna do for me. This is how this is gonna help me. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:55:51 Not that it's just, like, some new, cool thing that I should play with, because I've got a million other things to do. I don't have time to just sit here and play with something because it's cool. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:56:01 So, um, Yost says this thing, he calls, um… older… he calls, um, younger gamers, um, time-rich, money-poor. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:56:11 And older gamers are the reverse. So, they're time poor. They don't want to sit around and play with it and figure out how to go back to the game, and I forgot how to do this piece and all that. So, you know, that's part of the, um, consideration as you're thinking about these consumers. [Amber Samdahl] 12:56:29 That's a great… that's a great way to frame it. Um, I had a question. You mentioned, uh, intergenerational games and the importance of intergenerational play, and I know you've done some studies around that. Could you talk a little bit more about [Amber Samdahl] 12:56:42 Um, you know, how intergenerational games could serve as inspiration for what we're doing, you know, public media. [Amber Samdahl] 12:56:48 We serve really broad audiences, content for kids, and content for older adults, and everyone in between. You know, how should we be thinking about that? [Amber Samdahl] 12:56:56 Or where should we be finding inspiration in that space? [Brittne Kakulla] 12:56:59 So, there's a lot, um, so the intergenerational play, I think, um, the first aspect of… is connection. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:57:06 So, it helps with this idea of, um, social connection. So, there's engagement between the, um, the older adult and the young adult, they're teaching something, and it also gives, like, self-esteem for the younger. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:57:20 Um, the child, because they're also… they've got some, um… you know, power in a situation, they're able to teach, so that helps with self-esteem. But in general, when we've looked at Um, my grandparents, so, like, I did a huge grandparent study, um, several years ago, and some of the values that [Brittne Kakulla] 12:57:37 Older adults want to give to, um, their grandchildren, it's like family. They want to teach the values that they have about managing money, about their culture. So, intergenerational play is a way to have a connection in a fun way. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:57:55 But to also share some of those things that are valued with the next generation. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:58:01 So, but again, making it fun, because, you know, no one wants to be lectured at or, you know, talked down to. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:58:07 Um, so it's a way to engage, and a way to, um, facilitate that social connection And there was, um, um, there's another study that looked at Um, uh, grandparents by, um, by age. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:58:22 And there's… there's a disconnect, um, synchronous and asynchronous communication. So, when children are younger, the grandchildren are younger, that connection is relatively easy, even though it has to be facilitated by the parent. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:58:34 Because you're… it's, you know, you can call them on the phone, they'll talk to you, they're right there. But as they get older, there's less parent involvement, so there needs to be more of a connection with the asynchronous Um, type of engagement. So, it's like learning how to text message. And gaming is a place where you could have asynchronous or synchronous engagement. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:58:55 So again, keeping that connection and keeping that, um, you know, that relationship, like, building that. [Amber Samdahl] 12:59:02 Mm-hmm. Oh, I love that. Well, we are just about at time. Um, I wanted to say, again, a big thank you, Brittne, for your expertise in sharing all of your incredible learnings and wisdom with all of us in public media. I hope we all can [Amber Samdahl] 12:59:18 Take this and march forward. I will say for everyone attending, feel free to email. I will put emails in the chat for myself and Chad Davis, if you want to continue conversations around gaming, we are looking to start a group to kind of take this movement forward. Um, here's my email in the chat. Um, and then lastly. [Amber Samdahl] 12:59:39 I'm going to once again put in a plug for the July webinar for you to register there, but thank you, Brittne. This has been… Wonderful. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:59:49 I'll put mine in the chat, too, if anyone wants to reach out. [Brittne Kakulla] 12:59:51 Talk more about gaming. It was on that, um… that last slide, but I had the link, I can send you that to include. [Amber Samdahl] 12:59:59 Perfect. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, everyone, for joining. This has been fantastic. I learned a lot, and I'm going to be absorbing and processing for a while. [Brittne Kakulla] 13:00:02 Cool. Alright, thank you. [Brittne Kakulla] 13:00:08 Alright, thanks. Right, yeah. [Amber Samdahl] 13:00:09 Thank you so much, Brittne. Thanks, everyone.